Am I the only one who gives Fs to students who earn them?

[seastarmath]

Grades are due this week and once again, I am the bad guy. I teach math and out of 100 students, I have 8 who are failing. No other teacher on my team is giving failing grades. I have asked other math teachers at my school and they are all in the same predicament. It seems here the only people willing to deal with the hassle of issuing a failing grade are the math teachers. (Maybe that's because we fuss at teachers who send students to use claiming they have the background when they DON'T. You can't BS your way through a math problem. Either you know it or you don't.) Actually, I am quite pleased I only have 8 with failing grades. Usually there are more.

Is anyone else in our boat?

[MissTeach]

I believe that most of our teachers give failing grades when they are earned. What I find is that a student failing my class is usually failing most of their other classes. When we have 'at risk of failing' meetings, there are usually four to six teachers in the room with the parents and student. I taught English for several years and I don't believe a student can BS their way through an essay any more than they can through a math problem. You have certain rules that you have to follow in both!

[wig]

My students get what they earn. Unfortunately, that sometimes includes a failing grade.

[Spectre]

G

Is anyone else in our boat?

Not at present, as I teach only 6th grade science this year, but I have been in your place before. :eek:

It's no fun, is it? :(

Having real standards is a tough thing to do anymore in a world gone amuck with political correctness and with so many schools "led" by those who would rather appear excellent than actually being such.

Math is one of those things that is cumulative. Well, okay, other disciplines are too, to an extent, but if the basics aren't learned, then the proverbial house of cards comes tumbling down, eventually.

I once suffered under a "principal" who longed for our 6th graders to take prealgebra, our 7th graders algebra and our 8th graders, geometry. Why? It was a feather in her cap, made her look good. She could give a hoot about the gaps in the student learning and how it would catch up to them in high school or before. They were someone else's worry then.

The public school systems in the USA are sooo broken and soooo very much need repair or revamping. Not gonna happen anytime soon. I heard Obama wants merit pay and even more testing.

[David]

Australia is headed for where the USA is at the moment. The government is keen on more and more testing and then using those test results to compare schools. Performance pay is also part of the government's plans.

[silvana]

We have league tables, sats and performance management and it does not raise standards, endless testing just gives scores ...real learning is about moving a child on....England is now moving away from sats and towards teachers assessment using assessment for learning. This is used by all the countries at the top of the international league tables...failing grades are symptomatic of a society more concerned with validity than real learning!

[AtoZ]

This post is very similar (in its root problem) to the one started by mdp8879, "Does every student deserve a 100." Some people have already mentioned this... it has a lot to do with changes that have occurred in our educational system.

It seems that we no longer see grades as a reflection of one's work (and an indication of how much more work needs to be done); grades are seen as punishment, a personal insult, an attempt to demoralize a student, etc. But if you give a student a better grade than he/she has deserved, you're boosting his/her self-esteem and setting him/her up for failure down the road.

Because of this self-esteem boosting, an A seems to be considered the average...which simply cannot be so (statistically speaking). If you look at normal distribution, 8 failing grades out of 100 is very good.

I give Fs. More than one of my students has found that I lack compassion because I don't give sympathy grades. (It started with my student teaching--I think the number of Fs was between 5 and 10 for my 130-140 students.) More than one more experienced teacher has warned me that I might get in trouble. If I do get in trouble for it and can't fight it, I will leave the teaching profession knowing that I did not set my students up for failure in the future.

Having said all of that, I'd also add that grades are not only there to assess students, but teachers as well. If I give a test and 60% of my students fail it, I'd certainly reteach that section.

[Adrienne]

My students get what they earn. Unfortunately, that sometimes includes a failing grade.

Agreed. I don't enjoy failing students, but if they've earned it, then that's just the way it is.

We had a teacher here who somehow had every single student in her American History class pass with a 100% A. Not just an A, a 100%. How?! I didn't even have all of my Drama kids pass with a 100%!! Those kinds of teachers, to me, make the rest of our jobs so much harder.

Don't give in to the pressure. The student ultimately decides on his or her grade, through their effort, attitude, and performance.

[Spectre]

has increasingly fallen into disrepute. :confused2:

Somewhere between the "self-esteem" revolution and "education reform," we lost sight of the fact (for me a fact) that a part of education is the teaching of responsibility.

I frequently refer to that as the "fourth R.":clap:

And sadly, few there are who truly insist on it or are permitted to insist on it. In the USA, we have far too many "administrators" who feel it is more important to dodge "controversy" or please overzealous parents than it is to assure that the students learn.

Small wonder we have so many youngsters in our country growing up, thinking the world owes them something. That idea has been introduced and reinforced in our educational system.

I don't enjoy giving failing grades. As someone alluded to already, when that happens, I feel as though I fail too. But I can only do so much. I have students in my classes who will do next to nothing. It is particularly rampant among special education students. This not because they are less intelligent, but because they have learned they can do little or nothing or they will not be called to account for it.

What kinds of citizens will these students make?

Grades aren't my favorite thing, but we are all evaluated, constantly, in a variety of ways. We get evaluations at our work place. We must pass assessments to get driver's licenses. People evaluate and judge us by our actions. It's unavoidable.

What a disservice we do to our students when we accept less than their best.

[Clearly Canadian]

It is frustrating when students think they are entitled to passing grades, just because they put themselves in a seat in your class. We send out 6 reports a year, 3 official report cards and an interim report at the 1/2 way point of each term. We have an online reporting system for our grades that parents and students can use to check on student progress, assignments not handed in, etc. We also post almost daily, homework for students on our school web site, in lieu of students having to carry an agenda. Students are also invited into my room during one lunch hour a week to catch up on what they may be missing or struggling with. Despite all this I still have students who are failing my social and or LA class. I get so frustrated with their lack of responsibility. Then when you sit down for parent teacher interviews, parents are surprised by the lack of commitment by their children. While ultimately our students need to learn to be responsible for their own learning, sometimes you can't help but know that their inability to complete assignments is due to being "parentally challenged."
I have a poster in my room that states "I don't give grades, you earn them". For the most part the kids know this to be true. Sometimes there is a point of no return, and I must focus my energy elsewhere. It is disappointing when children fail, but it is a reality. If they fail my class, then it says so on their report card.

I also have another one that I put up on meet the teacher night and for parent teacher interviews that states "Parents are the first teachers."

[mdp8879]

You are not the only one. I would be thrilled to have only 8 kids failing! Good job! You can only do so much to help a kid to pass and then it is up to them. I work with my kids constantly, sometimes I feel like I am standing on my head, jumping up and down to get them to do SOMETHING, anything!

What can you do? Make sure to be consistent with every kid. Make sure that the students understand your expectations. Document the work that you do with kids. Converse with teachers, administrators, counselors so that they know you are working for the students' best interest. Its then up to them.

Also, I keep telling myself two things...
-Grades are an honest reflection of what students know, they are not a punishment.
-Every student has the right to fail and to pass equally.

Those teachers who are giving 100%s to all of their students are not teaching. That is a farce and it shouldn't be allowed. Never compare yourself to them... you are far better.

[MissTeach]

What kinds of citizens will these students make?

Grades aren't my favorite thing, but we are all evaluated, constantly, in a variety of ways. We get evaluations at our work place. We must pass assessments to get driver's licenses. People evaluate and judge us by our actions. It's unavoidable.

What a disservice we do to our students when we accept less than their best.


I am constantly telling my students that everything we do in school is to prepare them for the real world! They get tired of hearing me tell them "This is a life skill that you are learning." I spent an entire class period this last week talking about the importance of having a 'good work ethic.'

[Dhe Poet]

in her American History class pass with a 100% A. Not just an A, a 100%. How?!
Mr. Damico? My history teacher when I was in school taught us very well. We colored pictures about the lesson and learned it for real. All of us!
I remember more than the mrs., she's eleven years younger than I am.

[merrynl]

My very first term giving grades, I ended up giving F's to about 20 kids out of the 80 I had. My class was an Earth Space Science class that was mostly low performing and special ed kids. I made them a deal: if they turned in all of their work during the term, they'd pass the class. It was a policy that my principal and I agreed would be good for these kids... many of them were taking this class for the second or third time and needed it to graduate.

Every student who did the work passed - without me adjusting their grades up to match the deal. All of the F's were kids who just plain didn't turn in their work. One of the little cherubs earned a 3% F - the only thing he turned in was a group project, that I'm pretty sure the rest of the group did. The next two terms though, the kids grades improved and more of them passed.

I was hired to fill a position in the science department that had been hard to fill. There was a teacher there who'd taught in that school for 30+ years and then retired. After that, there was a revolving door of teachers. I was the 5th teacher in that position in 3 years.

Initially, those first students who got the F's weren't pleased about it. But, the other kids appreciated that I was actually teaching them something. It also helped that I had the administrations support. Near the end of that first term (we had about 20 weeks to go), I went to my principal with my gradebook and explained to him that I was having a problem with kids not turning in their work and who would fail for it. He and I chatted, and then he came into my classes one day and he and I talked to the kids about it. He let them know that he was supporting me giving them F's if that's all they earned. He also let them know that I'd be back the following year, so they couldn't just hope to get an easier teacher the next time.

[Ima Teacher]

I make it really, really hard for a student to fail my class. I have never had a student fail my class for any other reason that not doing the assignments. So, we've started making the kids do the work or they don't get a grade. You get an A, B, C, D, or incomplete.

Yes, there are still a few kids who will get an F . . . but it's becasue they are not willing to work with the teachers to make progress.

[Ima Teacher]

My class was an Earth Space Science class that was mostly low performing and special ed kids. I made them a deal: if they turned in all of their work during the term, they'd pass the class.

Don't the special education kids have modifications and/or collaboration with a special education teacher?

Was quality of the work not taken into consideration at all?

[merrynl]

Don't the special education kids have modifications and/or collaboration with a special education teacher?

Was quality of the work not taken into consideration at all?

The only special ed kids who were an issue, just plain didn't do anything. I talked to all of the special ed teachers, and all of the kids were able to do the work, they just didn't do it. Also, the school had a special ed Earth Science class, so the SPED kids who weren't deemed able to keep up in my class were put in that class. My kids were mostly those who needed extra time on tests, might need a test read to them, behavior issues, etc.

[merrynl]

Was quality of the work not taken into consideration at all?

It was... if it was obvious that the kids weren't trying, they were given the assignment back ungraded. If they wanted credit, they had to redo it. I had a few kids who decided that writing their name on the paper and turning it in counted as doing their work. It definitely didn't.