I Feel a Sermon Coming On

[Bananas]

I usually leave it to Rev. Bananas to occupy that pulpit and put forth the sermons. He does such a good job of that. I do feel the need to nudge him out of that pulpit and transport it into the virtual world.

I come to a few forums more for the teacher's lounge aspect to unwind and relax. Life right now is probably as stressful as Spectre's, but for different reasons. I am fortunate in that my rural district is about as family oriented as a district can be, and the bulk of my colleagues and principal are dedicated and supportive. I also have two terrific children and a husband who has grown so much during our marriage and is a great resource to me.

With that said, I find a lot of students who will soon be teachers, and new teachers who come to forums, join listservs, and enter the chatroom. With the well-known statistics that 50% of new teachers leaving within the first five years, it seems prudent that we support them in whatever ways we can. Sharing our thoughts with them can really be that oasis in the desert for some. We know that many do not have the support of staff or admin, and that is difficult for veteran teachers.

I find the vast majority on this board are positive, caring influences, and I thank you for your understanding and sensitivity. It has rankled me that a poster has had the theory of people needing be weeded out, in effect, as that is the only way the system should be. This just goes against the grain of humanity and common sense. We need to be here for each other and express our different viewpoints with civility and integrity.

I see a new teacher entering the vocation somewhat as planting a tree. You will not expect that tree to bear the fruit right away. You do your best to tend the roots and care for the life of the tree. Seasons come and go, and it stands stronger with a sturdier trunk. After years, there are still storms to weather; they don't go away. This stronger tree can provide some protection to newer trees nearby.

This is not the best analogy as we know that new teachers have had a lot of training also share their ideas with the "older trees." There is an interdependence that benefits all.

There, now I feel better. I thank so many of you for what you do offer here to the community with your personal ideas and feelings. It is a good place to be and you are so good at what you do.

I can now relinquish the pulpit so that hubby can use it for his sermon. Unless he would like me to say something to the congregation. There are times I would like to.;)

[Deb]

Bananas,

I understand where you're coming from in your post, but I do have a couple of questions.

First, if teachers are unprepared to teach after they have completed their training, who decides which kids become the product of her "real life" indoctrination? A teacher should be prepared from the first day to teach her class, or you have an entire classroom that is going to suffer for his/her inadequacy.

Secondly, why do teachers bail in the first five years? I'm a big believer in standing up for what you believe in, and I would think that as a group teachers would have a large voice.

I've had teachers and administrators tell me that they're glad I'm lobbying to let NCLB expire, as it exists today and with the proposed changes. When I ask them if they are making their voice heard, I get resounding a resounding "No!". Can anyone tell me why that is?

I support teachers, but I also have high expectations of them. Mediocrity isn't acceptable, and anyone unwilling to strive for greatness shouldn't be in a school.

I would love to know what teachers believe can be done to make them more prepared for teaching a class on their own for the first time, and what would reduce the drop out rate for teachers. I don't readily accept that pay is the issue, as it is common knowledge what the pay scale is in a public school. I do acknowledge that Good teachers should at least be paid as well as NBA players, as they have a much more important job. :)

[jsfowler]

Deb, teaching is like all professions. They do not enter the classroom on their first day loaded with all the knowledge that 20 year teacher veterans have. Just like first day doctors are not as knowledgable and wise as a 20 year veteran doctor.

IMO, many teachers bail within the first few years because the job is not what they expected. Teaching is a lot more than educating students - it is dealing with parents, administrators, paper work, and testing. Even though many do bail, I highly doubt our profession has the highest turnover.

Maybe the teachers and administrators that you deal with do not speak out against NCLB but we do through teacher organizations and letters to politicians. You also need to remember that not EVERY teacher is against NCLB. I, for one, think it has a lot of positives.

I am glad that you support teachers and you have high expectations. All parents should want the best for thier kids. But what are you doing to help teachers reach those expectations?

The new teachers at my school seem very prepared so I do not know what else can be done. Perhaps it is in certain states that teachers aren't prepared and IF that is the case then the colleges and universities need to revamp their program. To reduce the dropout rate for teachers...well they need to be able to do what they wanted to do in the first place - educate children.

And, by the way, pay IS an issue!

[Chef Dave]

As to why so many teachers leave within the first five years, it's partially because all too many districts have an antiquated policy of "trial by fire." There are some districts and some teachers who believe that "good teachers" need toughening ... hence novice teachers are often given the most difficult classes. Many of them aren't given mentors of older and more experienced teachers who can help them successfully navigate through their first year of teaching.

The stress that jsfowler alluded to with regards to dealing with parents, writing lessons, learning the curriculum etc. is often compounded by a horrible sense of isolation ... especially for self-contained elementary teachers.

When coupled with a lack of administrative support or administrators who are simply ineffective in terms of providing instructional leadership or assistance in dealing with disruptive students ... the pressure can become unbearable.

[Spectre]

Complicated issues just don't have simple answers.

No professional is ready to hit the ground running on their first day. I know we have all heard the expression that experience is the BEST teacher. New teachers just don't have that. We should aid and support them, not toss them into the proverbial fire to be "tested," to see what they are made of. Sadly, Chef Dave is right. Too many school districts want to see the newbies earn their stripes. Problem is, too many of them ending up going AWOL before that happens.
Not sure I can fault them. :rolleyes:

Working conditions are tough, if only due to their relative newness and the way the veterans and administration sometimes look down upon them. Last year, our administration refused to assist a new teacher, whever she called for help with discipline, figuring it was just her inability that created the trouble. If you have followed my postings, recently, you know what that has earned them and I find myself almost hoping they get their hindside fried a bit.

Why do we lose so many new ones?

We lose them because they DO feel isolated and unsupported. We lose them because too many cannot make it on the paltry pay they get and often have to work a second job to make ends meet. I think all of us realize that teaching is already a job and a half in itself and we don't need another one to drain away our time and energy. We lose the new ones because they get disillusioned with the politics, the infighting, the nepotism, the lack of administrative competence and committment.

As I said, complicated problems just don't have simple answers or solutions. And if the person who is making these snap judgements about ridding ourselves of those who cannot hack it, then I suggest they consider another line of work themself.:D

[wig]

I find the vast majority on this board are positive, caring influences, and I thank you for your understanding and sensitivity. It has rankled me that a poster has had the theory of people needing be weeded out, in effect, as that is the only way the system should be. This just goes against the grain of humanity and common sense. We need to be here for each other and express our different viewpoints with civility and integrity.

If it is the poster I think you are referring to, I think he has been weeded out of this forum as he has been on other teacher forums. http://www.theteacherscorner.net/forums/showgroups.php


I think we do have a responsibility to help rather than judge in "cyber space" because frankly, we are not in the building to see or hear what is happening. One cannot hear voice in the written word unless the writer is an excellent writer.

PS: Bananas, next time the Rev. Mr. Bananas is under the weather, I think you could easily occupy his pulpit.

[Chef Dave]

I recall the experience of losing a first year teacher. She resigned before year's end. Why? We had a retained a 4th grade student who had extreme behavioral issues. In addition to being unusually difficult, he hated women and refused to follow their instructions.

Just prior to the start of the school year, we lost our building administrator. She was terminated because of our low test scores. The school board ignored the fact that our demographics had changed overnight following the closure of the Bergstrom Air Force Base which had literally been just across the street from our school.

The new administrator was quite full of himself. He was God's authority on education and when my grade level recommended that the retained student NOT be assigned to a first year novice teacher who was also a woman, he flew into a rage. He pounded his desk with his fist and told us that we couldn't tell him what he could or could not do at his school because HE was the BUILDING ADMINISTRATOR!

The retained student was put in the novice teacher's room and as we expected, she could not control him. When she sought administrative support, the building administrator screamed at her and often had her in tears because she was "inept" and "incompetent" and clearly lacked skills in classroom management.

The poor woman quit in October.

My grade level again tried to convince the building administrator to put the student with a male teacher. The administrator again ignored us. This time he put the kid with a highly experienced female teacher.

As with the novice teacher, the other teacher was berated for her inability to control this teacher. She resigned in December.

The boy was finally placed with me. I kept him in line ... barely. Had the building administrator listened to us, the novice teacher would probably have survived the year. We also would have retained the services of the experienced teacher.

Decent administrative support is essential. Poor administrators have the ability to undermine classroom management by not providing appropriate levels of support.

P.S. Regarding the loss of CNO from this forum - good riddance!

Although I understand that there will be people in this forum who do not always see eye to eye with me, I think there is a difference between people who agree to disagree and people who are deliberately provocative simply because they enjoy creating disharmony and chaos.

I will not miss CNO.

[MissTeach]

In our school, as in many other schools, new teachers are assigned a mentor to help them through the year. Most of the time, the mentor is in the same department as the new teacher. Also, our new teachers meet with the building administrators each month. At these meetings, they get help with all of the paper work and with discipline issues. This works very well for our new teachers.

I won't miss CNO either.

[Spectre]

I must be missing something. Are you saying our associate from the bayou country has been restricrted from teacher corner?
I never celebrate banishment of anyone, but if that has happened, I do feel a sense of relief.

[Chef Dave]

I must be missing something. Are you saying our associate from the bayou country has been restricrted from teacher corner?
I never celebrate banishment of anyone, but if that has happened, I do feel a sense of relief.

If you look towards the bottom of the main page, there's a link for "View Forum Leaders." Clicking on this will give you a list of site administrators as well as a list of banned members.

CNO has been banned. Why? I'm not precisely sure. He presumably went too far with his personal attacks.

As to the matter of celebration, nobody has suggested celebrating anything. I am simply relieved that he's gone as I do not think he made any positive contributions to this forum. He put other members down, made disparaging comments, and was generally unpleasant.

It is my personal feeling that he behaved this way to provoke reactions - which is part of the reason I put him on my ignore list. I had no interest in playing games with him or further contributing to the disruptions of this forum.

[wig]

Spectre, it's linked in my post.

Unfortunately, he has been banned from other teacher forums as well. He started our pretty civil in the beginning and I was hoping he would stay that way. I don't disagree with ALL he has to say. But there are two ways to say things and unfortunately he started to choose the wrong way.

ANYway, back to Bananas post, we are hear to support one another and I would say that this board does a pretty good job of that.

[Spectre]

As to the matter of celebration, nobody has suggested celebrating anything. I am simply relieved that he's gone as I do not think he made any positive contributions to this forum. He put other members down, made disparaging comments, and was generally unpleasant.

.

Agreed. Didn't mean to suggest that anyone was, only that while I do not, I can certainly understand a sense of relief at what amounted to an annoyance being gone, now.:D