Question About Dealing with Negative Attitudes

[Chef Dave]

I have a student who has had chronic attendance problems. She missed an astounding 24 days during first semester. She has missed 16 days this semester. She was actually doing well this semester until she hit a bump last week and missed the entire week of school.

I gave her written makeup assignments and she told me to go ahead and give her a zero because she wasn't going to do them. I told her that the difference between doing or not doing the assignments could be a high B or a low D.

She said she didn't care.

While reviewing the day's production, she kept interrupting me. She didn't want to make enchiladas. She especially didn't want to make pork enchiladas. Who had ever heard of pork enchiladas because everyone in this area only makes chicken or beef.

When I asked her if she had to be so negative, she smiled and said, "Uh-huh."

During the actual production, students had to shred poached chicken legs that we mixed with fried bell peppers and onions and Jalapeno/bacon cheese sauce to make burritos. (We typically offer at least one plated meal and one fast food item for sale in our student operated restaurant.)

"I hate chicken," muttered our little thunder cloud.

"This chicken is undercooked."

I told the student that the chicken had NOT been undercooked. It had temped out at 170 degrees.

The girl shoved a drumstick in my face. "Look, it's red."

The drumstick was not red. It wasn't even pink. I reiterated that the chicken had been cooked to temp and suggested that the student simply shred the chicken without any further comment.

"I think it's wrong to serve raw chicken," muttered the thundercloud. "Raw chicken is disgusting."

"Shut up," grumbled another student. "You don't even know what you're talking about."

"Don't tell me to shut up. It's a free country. Why don't you shut up?" demanded the thunder cloud. "It's not my fault that the chicken is raw."

I reiterated for the 2nd time that the chicken was not raw. The chicken had been poached and was properly cooked. I asked the student for the last time to simply focus on shredding the chicken otherwise I would have to find something else for the student to do.

The thundercloud tossed her chicken leg on the stainless steel prep table and said, "Oh good ... I'd love to do something else because I'm tired of working with your raw chicken."

I gave the thundercloud the most disgusting job I could think of. I had her clean the grease trap. The grease trap is basically a rectangular box at the end of the flat top grill. Students clean the grill top by dumping water on it and scrubbing it clean. Excess water and loose food particles are pushed into the grease trap.

The grease trap was nasty and the thunder cloud decided that perhaps the chicken hadn't been raw after all ... but no matter ... it was too late. She spent the rest of the period cleaning the grease trap. It had to be hosed down at the sink, scrubbed with degreaser, and rinsed. After rinsing it clean I had her clean it again with soap after which it had to be rinsed for a second time.

The thunder cloud was unhappy with me but tough panookies. I don't teach culinary arts students to make them happy. I teach them how to work in a restaurant setting.

In any event, it's been a long year with this particular student. This student claims that she'd like to become a chef but geez ... she's had 40 absences this year.

If she were an employee, I'd have fired her a long time ago.

I'm a bit frustrated with this student partially because of her attendance but mainly because of her mouth. She doesn't know when to shut up and she's so negative that she's even turned away customers while working as a counter server in our student restaurant.

"Don't order the cream of mushroom soup," she'll say, "Because looks like barf and tastes worst." Never mind the fact that she didn't make the product in question, has never tried it, and doesn't know what she's talking about.

I've tried talking to this student to no effect.

I strongly suspect that this student has on several occasions tried to deliberately provoke me just to get me upset. She and two other students are often disruptive and act as though they're playing tag team wrestling.

When one student mouths off and I talk to that person, another student jumps in and picks up where the first student left off. When I switch my attention to that student, the first student continue to voice loud and shrill complaints.

My solution has always been very simple. I issue a warning and when students continue with their disruptive behavior, I have them clean. Students have cleaned our char broiler and salamander. They've scrubbed out garbage cans. They've drained the deep fryer and scrubbed the greasy interior. They've cleaned grease traps.

Use of an immediate consequence seems to work ... at least for a while. I get 2 or 3 days of blessed reprieve where I can teach without disruptions or negative comments ... but then the lesson wears off and thundercloud and her buddies again try to provoke me.

This is my first year teaching at the high school level.

Question: Is this behavior typical of some high school students?

Question: Does anyone have any constructive suggestions for alternative ways to deal with this problem instead of assigning one or more students to a cleaning detail?

[sweetsass]

Yes, this behavior is very typical of 5-10 percent of high school students, and in certain classes, that negative attitude can be contagious. I deal with at least one kid like this every semester.

Have you talked to her parent/guardian? Usually that can make the strongest impression. Sometimes actually talking with the student helps too - bringing the negativity to their attention. Amazingly, a lot of kids aren't even aware they're being so negative. Finally, talk to their peers. Most of the time, peers have the strongest influence on a student.

[Boxcar]

Sometimes students try and make thier teachers angry. This can serve several purposes. First, when you feel bad, you may want to pass it off on someone else. Second, it can be fun to see how far you can go. Certain students pride themselves on this. Third, a student who sees bad behavior as a prideful thing will seek attention. The student will also want to make partnerships with peers who are engaging in the same behaviors.

So, yes - this is very normal for high school.

Because you are in one of the non-traditional classes, you'll be getting it more than the average.

I agree that talking to the parent may work, but it is only a solution in some cases. The number of instances where this works is decreasing rapidly. Why? Because many parents just don't know how, don't have time, or don't care to control the child. Often, the parent is doing the best he/she can. Unfortuantely, this is just not enough someitmes.

I think unplesant cleaning task are the right thing to do. This is how it has to work - costs and benefits style. The benefits of acting like a fool must be less than the costs of it. You have got to be strict and make the students unhappy about what they did. Certain types of students won't care about the talks or the morals or the respect or the future career ramifications. Actually, they'll basicly laugh in your face. They care about thier own pleasure and discomfort. If they don't see the rewards of misbehavior, they will eventually stop. Sadly, it can go to far extremes before this happens. You might not get to see the results. However, the majority of the time, you do start to see some change.

A lot of these students have poor impulse control. That means that they won't be able to employ the new lessons in behavior right away. The students don't think before they act, so they don't remember what happened last time. Often the actions are part of thier repitiore and aren't really conciously considered.

One good thing about being consistant in your discipline is what it will do for your rep. You may very well get a reputation as a strict teacher. However, your subject is an interesting and fun area. Therefore, you'll also be considered a fun teacher. Because the students enter the class expecting to be made to behave, they will behave for the most part. Then, you will be able to do many more awesome things with them. It becomes a cycle.

Of course, you'll still get the ones who see you as a challenge. In a couple of years, that will decrease.

Okay, i've gone on long enough. I hope some of this makes sense. It is a bit early...

[Chef Dave]

Hi Boxcar,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, culinary arts seems to attract special ed kids. The building administrator also told me that under my predecessor, it also attracted students with "thick skins" as the former culinary arts instructor had a reputation for screaming verbal abuse after which she would allegedly lock the students in the classroom and pout in her office.

I do not lose my temper and do not hide in my office. This is MY kitchen and MY restaurant. There is nobody quite more tyrranical than a chef in his kitchen ... though I also believe that chefs should be benevolent dictators rather than cruel despots.

I am told that the frequency of negative incidents with my students is less than it was with my predecessor ... and if this is so, then I think that being firm, fair, and consistent, (as I was when I was an elementary teacher), is a good thing.

This year I have been blessed by the presence of two honor roll students in my advanced culinary class. I also have a student athelete. Student atheletes are required to maintain a passing GPA in all subject areas.

The remaining students are all special ed.

Some of them are very solid/reliable students whom I would happily employ if this were a for profit business.

Three of them would have been fired after the first couple of weeks due to no call/no show (chronic attendance problem) and insubordination.

In addition to the Thunder Cloud, I have the "What If" kid, and one wannabe thug.

The what if kid is extremely immature. He always has to have something in his hand. Yesterday I had him wash pots after I caught him tossing a glass jar of pickles into the air. The reason I privately think of him as the "what if" kid is that he's constantly asking what if questions that really have nothing to do with what were doing i.e. "What would we do if the fire alarm went off and someone had chained the exterior doors shut?"

The what-if kid asked this question in response to my question ... 'Does anyone have any questions about the production of enchildas?"

The wannabe thug is a kid who tries to act street tough ... but having been a former inner city teacher, I've had 4th grade students who were actually a lot rougher than he is.

I think the tough guy image is just a show that's put on for the benefit of Thundercloud with whom he appears to be enarmoured. She has used this to good effect by getting her admirer to do most of her cleaning chores or to fetch needed supplies for her culinary arts production.

One hopes that next year will be easier but as a former elementary teacher I know that each class is hit or miss depending in part upon the group chemistry that evolves based upon the combination of personalities in each class.