Two New Students Accuse Me of Being "Mean"

[Chef Dave]

I recently picked up two new beginning culinary arts students from a neighboring alternative school. The alternative school has a child care center for teenage mothers and a strong special education program. It's also the last chance for regular ed students to graduate. Students with attendance or behavioral problems generally go to this school ... and students who can't make it there become drop outs.

Occasionally, the door swings the other way and students transfer from the alternative school to regular ed. Last semester I had one student do this.

She came into my culinary arts class, was present for one day and then skipped the rest of the week. She was with me for about five weeks and during this time, I only saw her once or twice a week.

When she was in my class, she basically did nothing. She hung back and didn't help her group prepare any food. She stared blankly at written assignments. She took "breaks" when other students were washing pots and pans or cleaning the kitchen.

The really bad thing is the effect she had on her younger sister. She transformed a perfectly decent student into a mirror image of herself. The younger sister also began having attendance problems. She stopped doing assignments. She stopped participating in class.

Both students were failing all subject areas when they finally withdrew. The older sister went back to the alternate school and took her younger sister with her.

At the start of the new semester, I got two new culinary arts students who had transferred from the alternate school. As with the girl from last semester, they're having a problem with attendance.

Last week they were absent for four days. When they finally came to school on Monday, they weren't happy when I gave them make up assignments.

"We had an excused absence," they complained.

I explained that although excused absences didn't count against them in terms of accumulating points towards the possible loss of semester credit, an excused absence did NOT excuse them from their responsibility for classroom assignments.

The boys chose not to do four days worth of assignments and received four zeros as a result.

Yesterday they sauntered into my class fifteen minutes late. Their classmates had already been broken into groups and were busy making rocky road brownies from scratch.

"You're late," I said. "Go to the office and get a tardy slip."

The boys didn't move.

"Get moving," I repeated.

The boys just stood there.

"WHAT PART OF 'GET A TARDY SLIP' DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?"

The boys shrugged. "If we get a tardy slip, we'll be even more tardy," observed one of the kids.

"Well that's just too bad," I said. "I don't care whether you're 15 seconds late or 15 minutes late. Tardy students get tardy slips. Those are the rules."

The kids took 15 minutes to get a tardy slip. I suspect they dilly-dallied on the way. When they returned, class was half over.

Since the other students were in the final stages of mixing their brownies, I told the two boys to get on the dish tank where they could help their classmates by washing kitchen aid mixing bowls, measuring cups, and spatulas.

The boys didn't move. "Hey, this is bogus," observed one of the kids. "It's your fault we were so late."

"Yeah," said the other. "This ain't fair."

I reminded the boys that they had started this problem by being 15 minutes late to begin with. With regards to the overall concept of "fairness," I suggested that being tardy wasn't fair to me or to their classmates. I am after all a culinary arts instructor and it's my job to get my students ready for employment in the food service industry.

"What do you think would happen if you were fifteen minutes late to your job?" I asked.

The boys shrugged.

I told them that although there is a tremendous need for employees in the food service industry, the industry also needs employees who are punctual. Being fifteen minutes late to class and being an additional fifteen minutes late in getting a tardy slip was simply not acceptable.

I gave the two students a choice. They could get on the dish tank or they could go to the office.

They chose to go to the office where they complained about how "mean" I was.

I am fortunate to have the support of the building administration ... but can see that working with these two students will be a challenge.

Their work ethic, sense of responsibility, and overall attitude, is pretty poor. I'm not sure why they transferred from the alternate school but as far as I'm concerned, they will be held accountable to the same standards as all of the other students.

I am going to have a talk with them on Monday. Since they weren't here during 1st semester, they missed my introductory talk about the professional food service.

I need these two students to understand that culinary arts is NOT a home economics class. I'm not teaching them how to cook so they can sit in class and stuff their faces. I'm teaching them skills to use in the food service industry ... and like it or not, cleaning, sanitation, personal hygiene, punctuality, following directions, and working with what I describe as a "sense of urgency" are all essential skills.

Culinary students may not pick and choose which lessons or skills they would like to learn. The average classroom is not a democracy and the commercial kitchen is even less democratic than the typical classroom. There are in fact few instructors who can be more tyrannical than a chef in his kitchen. Part of the reason for this is that kitchens with attached restaurants are responsible for meal production and sales ... and any behavior that affects food quality or production is simply not tolerated.

If these students can step up to the challenge of learning how to work in the food service industry - well and good. If they cannot do this, they might as well pack their book bags and go back to the alternative school ... not that either of these kids ever have book bags or even pencils for written assignments ...

Sorry to vent ...

[Spectre]

Sorry to vent ...

No need to be. I think we have all seen this sort of thing. I certainly do at my current school. Too many students feel entitled. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

I very much look forward to June and my NEXT school assignment.
:)

[Aziz]

Chef Dave,

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with these students. It's also too bad the first student you mentioned brought her sister down to her lower standards. I don't know if this would improve or aggravate the situation, but maybe you could phrase consequences in terms of the students' loss, and not your own. For instance, "If you're tardy to class, you'll miss out on learning how to make chocolate brownies." I think docking points off their participation grade is ineffective when they don't care about their grades. The only solution I can think of is figuring out what they do find valuable and letting them know that's what they'll be losing.

At my school, the students care so much about their grades that lowering a grade works like magic. Teachers who take off points for tardiness have students showing up early. The English department used to have a lot of students handing in papers late, so the department decided that for each day a paper was late (including weekends), the grade went down one whole letter. All the sudden, fewer grandmothers were dying and more printers were working.

Best of luck. I hope I could be of some help.

-Aziz

[Kidz R My Biz]

Chef Dave,
I can pick out the students you are talking about at ages 5-8. The patterns begin early. These students are not modeled for in a positive way. Unfortunately, the attitude about school began early. Homework was never made a priority for them, nor respect for teachers, let alone for themselves and their potential. Occasionally we can "reach" a student, and when we do our life choice as an educator is very worthwhile, however, more times these students have made up their minds about the course they will take. When given two roads to take, one uphill and one downhill, they will always take the uphill path to their destination. All we can do is to keep trying and keep our standards high for our students who set their standards high.

[Chef Dave]

At my school, the students care so much about their grades that lowering a grade works like magic.

Thank you all for your comments.

The sad thing is that ten years ago, this wouldn't have happened at this school. This used to be an incredibly small rural town. Before copper was discovered in the hills, there was basically nothing out here but cotton farmers.

The discovery of copper brought in a sudden building boom. A mining company snapped up leases on all apartment buildings and made long standing reservations with all area motels. Local contractors have a ten year backlog of new houses to build. The population has increased and the influx of new residents has really changed our student demographics.

I am told that our school population has doubled from what it used to be.

The influx of new students have also brought in different attitudes towards family, community, and education. Most of the students who have experienced difficulty in my class within the last year have all come from mining families.

One of my earlier posts in this forum had to do with a student whose father was verbally abusive towards his child. Although she was in the process of bringing up her grades, he called her a stupid useless failure, withdrew her from school, and sent her back to her mother in another state. The father in question was some sort of a mining executive.

The manager of our student operated restaurant recently had a problem with a student from another district who was stalking her daughter. The kid would call at all hours, send e-mails and text messages, and leave odd little notes at the door. Having been rejected by this young woman, he alternately threatened her and pleaded for for forgiveness.

The police initially asked the girl's mother to try and settle this amiably ... but the boy's mother was a miner. She didn't have a home telephone and there's no work phone in the mine shafts.

The problem got so bad that the police eventually had to go up to the mine where they were stopped at a security checkpoint. Security had to contact the shift foreman by radio. The shift foreman found the boy's mother and took her to see the police who basically asked her to control her son otherwise they would have to press harassment charges.

The two new students are also the children of miners.

Although local business owners are generally pleased with their increased business, local residents (not associated with the mining company) are less happy.

The demand for housing has encouraged most apartment owners to increase their rents. The mining company has gladly paid these rents but long term residents not employed by the mining company have been forced out of their apartments. We now have a growing homeless problem from people who are actually gainfully employed with minimum wage jobs.

Restaurants have jacked up their menu prices. Miners think nothing of dropping $40 per person for a steak dinner ... but these are high prices for a rural area. I am told that these steak dinners used to be about $17.

Our crime rate has also increased. DUI, drunken brawls at local bars, and domestic disturbances are said to be up. A lot of these problems are attributed to the miners.

This community is going through some fairly drastic growing pains. I'm glad that our administration is toeing the line. Our expectations remain constant for all students and in-coming students have the choice of meeting our expectations, failing, dropping out, or going to the alternative school.

Looking down the road, I worry about what will happen to this community when the copper plays out. This probably won't happen in my life time but at some point, the mines will play out and property values will plummet overnight ...

[Spectre]

Oh yeah. :(

We know qbout the "change" thing here in the Tar heel state...all too well.

It;s no fun.....

Increased prices for everything, traffic congestion, a new subdivision spinging up in every nook and cranny that doesn't already have one, crime skyrocketing, taxes doing the same...

Much of the hispanic influx has come here. I've nothing against hispanics, am always cordial to the many we have at school, and even speak a moderate amount of spanish, but there is an element that has come here, as a result, that encourages, drugs, violence and gangs. Not that we didn't have our own, domestic, versions of this already. Every culture has its downside, I guess. but all this just added to the mix and made things worse.

Yes, adjusting to change is a tough thing, but it seems it's something we all have to deal with, in one way or another, anymore, in the good ole USA.

Gone forever, it seems, are the "picket fenced" communities, the "little towns" where the worst crime is shoplifting or the occasional jay walker, the innocenct communities where children can jump on their bikes, early in the AM, and be gone all day without anyone filing a missing person's report. Gone, too, are the days where the school is the center and or hub of the community, the teacher is "right" and if you got into trouble at school, you got it again at home.

Change can be good, sometimes, but I think too much change can be catastrophic....:confused:

[sweetsass]

Oh yeah. :(

We know qbout the "change" thing here in the Tar heel state...all too well.

It;s no fun.....

Increased prices for everything, traffic congestion, a new subdivision spinging up in every nook and cranny that doesn't already have one, crime skyrocketing, taxes doing the same...

Much of the hispanic influx has come here. I've nothing against hispanics, am always cordial to the many we have at school, and even speak a moderate amount of spanish, but there is an element that has come here, as a result, that encourages, drugs, violence and gangs. Not that we didn't have our own, domestic, versions of this already. Every culture has its downside, I guess. but all this just added to the mix and made things worse.

Yes, adjusting to change is a tough thing, but it seems it's something we all have to deal with, in one way or another, anymore, in the good ole USA.

Gone forever, it seems, are the "picket fenced" communities, the "little towns" where the worst crime is shoplifting or the occasional jay walker, the innocenct communities where children can jump on their bikes, early in the AM, and be gone all day without anyone filing a missing person's report. Gone, too, are the days where the school is the center and or hub of the community, the teacher is "right" and if you got into trouble at school, you got it again at home.

Change can be good, sometimes, but I think too much change can be catastrophic....:confused:

So you're saying the decline of small towns and schools is due to Hispanics????

Unbelievable.

[Aziz]

Spectre,

I have to disagree with your statement about the teacher being "right." We're not always right.

-Aziz

[Chef Dave]

Spectre,

I have to disagree with your statement about the teacher being "right." We're not always right.

-Aziz

I'm sorry, but I don't see where he said this ... and he hasn't edited his posts.

Was this mentioned in another thread?

[Spectre]

"Right" is often a relative term, Aziz. Here I referred to the necessary authority of the teacher. Sure, I've made mistakes. Will make them again, being part of the human race, but anymore, the authority of just about anyone, including the teacher, is challenged by a culture that values the "self-esteem" of a spoiled child over the teacher's (and other students") right to teach and students' right to learn. I refer to a time (and perhaps you are not far enough along in years to remember) where if the teacher said you did something wrong, the home backed the teacher up and there were consequences both at school and at home.
Now?
Now parents come to school to "fight" the teacher, pull the "race card," or often claim we are "picking on" their young one if we discipline them. The plaintive "I didn't do nothin'!" is common, even when the culprit is seen and witnessed by God and the whole world.

No, we're not always right, but more frequently than not, we are.

Thanks for the support, Chef Dave. I did use the word "right" in a previous post, but I don't think the context within which it was used was quite understood.:)

[Spectre]

So you're saying the decline of small towns and schools is due to Hispanics????

Unbelievable.

Sweetsass, thank you for reminding me why I placed you on my ignore list. Your ability to take things out of context, twist facts, and just generally lack contact with reality remains legendary. I will now replace you on my "ignore" list. Just could not resist seeing what deviations you had conjured up this time.:confused: LOL!

[Aziz]

Chef Dave,

Gone, too, are the days where the school is the center and or hub of the community, the teacher is "right" and if you got into trouble at school, you got it again at home.


-Aziz

[Aziz]

Spectre,

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. From what I understand, you were referring to a time when students did not have a say, and parents would agree with the teacher the vast majority of time time. Nowadays, parents are just as likely as students to contradict the teacher.

Please correct me if I completely missed your point. I'm still interested in hearing what you have to say!

-Aziz

[MsCoffeeLover]

You know, at one of my previous schools all the teachers were at the lunch table talking about "kids today." Well, in my day, what the teacher said was right, when you got home there were consequences, and if a student got in trouble, you pretty much had to answer to everyone in the neighborhood. There was no such thing as the teacher interrupting the work day to contact a parent. Of course, kids could get a whipping back in the day as well.

All of us were talking "about a time we remember when....."

As we chatted, there was a teacher that had been teaching for over thirty years. There was a time in her day she remembered you were allowed to lock a kid in the closet. It was hard not to laugh, but it was also hard not to picture the most taxing kid in that closet.

[Chef Dave]

I agree with both Aziz and Spectre.

Teachers are not always right in that their knowledge is sometimes faulty. I once knew a Saudi teacher who taught his class that trees suck oxygen out of the air. This odd little tidbit came to light a few days before I left for Botswana to go on a picture safari. Ahmed, the teacher, suggested that I not camp near trees because trees suck the oxygen out of the air. At first I thought he was joking but he was actually quite serious ... and of course he was also quite wrong. :eek:

On the other hand as an old fashioned traditionalist, I also believe that a teacher's authority must not be challenged so long as that teacher remains in compliance with district policy. A teacher may not use his or her authority to abuse students or to violate the law ... but in all other respects, there is only person in charge of a given classroom and that is the classroom teacher.

Part of the reason I plan to talk with my two new students on Monday is because I need them to understand my position. I don't care whether or not they agree with me or whether or not they think I'm being mean.

Culinary arts students are expected to be punctual to class. When given an instruction, they are expected to immediately follow directions. Students who are not punctual are expected to get tardy slips as per school policy. Students who are extremely tardy (10 minutes or more) will have to sit out of the day's activity by washing pots and pans, scrubbing counters, or doing whatever else I deem necessary and appropriate. Students who will not follow instructions will be sent to the office on discipline charges for willful disobedience. They will also receive a failing grade for lack of participation.

A commercial kitchen is not a democracy. Our needs are governed by customer demands and the need to expedite the production of meals within a timely basis while observing the county health code.

[Chef Dave]

Spectre - With regards to sweetsass who is anything but - I have long since put her on my ignore list. As far as I'm concerned, her posts are spiteful and she rarely makes a positive contribution to this forum. Unable or unwilling to even discuss any difference of opinion in a calm and rational manner, she quickly resorts to name calling, snide comments, and outright insults.

I do not know why she behaves this way. Perhaps she wasn't hugged as a child. Who knows? Who cares?

In any event - it isn't worth the aggravation to read her posts and it makes even less sense to respond to anything she says. Talking to her is like trying to reason with a rabid pit bull.

In time, one can only hope that she will go too far and the site administration will finally ban her.

[Spectre]

Spectre,

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. From what I understand, you were referring to a time when students did not have a say, and parents would agree with the teacher the vast majority of time time. Nowadays, parents are just as likely as students to contradict the teacher.

Please correct me if I completely missed your point. I'm still interested in hearing what you have to say!

-Aziz
No need for apologies. No offense was taken.

I have never advocated for a time or policy that never permitted student input. I still don't. One of the things my students like most about me (their words) is that I tend to listen more than most adults they know.

I merely point out that teachers had much more credibility before these times of "children's rights." I've no problem with rights for anyone, just think that along with those rights should come some sense of responsibility. That doesn't appear to be happening now.

The home seemed to work more closely with the school back then too. Education was valued. So were things like civility, honesty, and decent behavior. Sadly, those things don't seem to be a priority in some homes.

[Boxcar]

I don't really buy that everything was all sunny "back in the day". There were troubled kids and uncooperative guardians during those decades too. Of course, this is just how I see it.

Yes, values and perspectives do change. I certainly agree with that. Usually, the change is a mix of good and bad.

I think my point is this: nothing should be to the extreme. We don't want to completely return to the past, but we don't want to swing too much in the oppesite direction either. Being too strict or too lenient isn't the answer. All thing in moderation. That is cliche for a reason.

[Aziz]

I'm so glad to hear you guys have found a balance between establishing your position and allowing student input.

I went to two schools that were on both extremes of the spectrum. At my first school, the teachers were very strict and parents sided with teachers very close to always. Even when students' rights were being violated. And I'm not talking about their rights to freedom of speech and therefore their right to curse out the teacher. I'm talking about students' rights to their own body. I admit I'm probably very biased because in my experience as a student, the "teacher's credibility" went way too far. Part of the reason the
"teacher's credibility" crossed a line was become parents were so willing to cooperate fully with the teachers.

At my other school (and the school I teach at now), students are a lot less disciplined. There are students that feel they are perfectly entitled to doing what they want. Lots of times, these students are siblings, so I feel it's related to the way their parents raised them (although I don't blame the parents completely.) Two students that come to mind (brother and sister) have parents that are almost always absent. I completely agree that the atmosphere of the classroom is a reflection of how children are being raised at home.

We don't seem to be having nearly as many problems at my current school, though, and any problems that exist are out in the open. My old school had a lot of issues, but they were all very hidden. The administration was too concerned with maintaining an image of perfection. I personally prefer my current school, but I recognize that there is probably a balance between my first school and current school that would yield the ideal class atmosphere.

-Aziz

[Bananas]

So you're saying the decline of small towns and schools is due to Hispanics????

Unbelievable.

What I read was that Spectre observed in that ONE locale some change occurring with the influx of the Hispanics. That is a far cry from speaking on behalf of small towns and schools in general. Spectre also acknowledged that things happen with other cultures. Spectre goes beyond the race or heritage and to the individuals.

[Boxcar]

I think that the reflection you do in your post is a very good thing, Aziz. Being able to identify possible causes of issues is important. Also wise is being able to see the good and bad of situations. I don't think any school is going to be perfect, so this is a vaulable ability.

[Aziz]

Thank you, Boxcar.

I love the idea of coming together with other teachers to discuss our lives online. I love reading your opinions and perspectives. Without your input, I could never identify possible causes or see the good and bad in situations.

I just want to thank everyone for their contributions. I have already learned so much in the few weeks I've been a member.

-Aziz

[Boxcar]

You're welcome.

I, too, have learned so much. Thank you all for that.

I really like the atmosphere on this forum and the people here.

[Spectre]

What I read was that Spectre observed in that ONE locale some change occurring with the influx of the Hispanics. That is a far cry from speaking on behalf of small towns and schools in general. Spectre also acknowledged that things happen with other cultures. Spectre goes beyond the race or heritage and to the individuals.

Thank you, Bananas. :)

That is precisely what I was trying to convey.

[Bananas]

You are most welcome, Spectre. I have too much respect for you and know that you would teach purple people with orange polka dots and see the potential within them above all else. :)

[Bananas]

What is a MEAN Teacher?

By: Laura M Staunton/ New Jersey
Barb Erickson/ Michigan

A MEAN teacher insists that each student do the best s/he is capable of doing.

A MEAN teacher insists that students hand in their assignments on time and takes off points for late assignments.

A MEAN teacher does not accept incomplete assignments.

A MEAN teacher requires each student to think carefully and to make her/his own decisions.

A MEAN teacher holds each student responsible for her/his own behavior.

A MEAN teacher makes students keep the classroom, themselves, and their belongings neat and clean.

A MEAN teacher does not allow free time in class until all class-work is done.

A MEAN teacher gives homework regularly, sometimes even on weekends.

A MEAN teacher calls on students who don't raise their hands to answer questions.

A MEAN teacher requires all students to treat each other with respect.

A MEAN teacher makes life miserable for students by insisting that they always tell the truth.

A MEAN teacher produces students who are respectful, responsible, and successful.


THE WORLD NEEDS MORE MEAN* TEACHERS!

*(MEAN = Making Excellence A Necessity)

[Spectre]

I had this hanging on the wall of my classroom for six years. Don't know what has become of it now, with my move two years ago.

[Boxcar]

That is certainly an interesting take on a "mean" teacher. I like it.

[upnorthteacher]

Thanks, Bananas! I really like that "mean teacher" perspective. I am going to continue being "mean"! (And maybe get even meaner)

[Bananas]

MEAN is one of my many middle names! :)

[Chef Dave]

This is an update on my on-going experience with my two new students. After their last talk with the building administrator, they settled down for a bit. From time to time, they have made sarcastic comments which I have largely ignored.

Last Thursday they got into trouble again.

One of the benefits that my culinary students have had is that after all of their work is done and after they've cleaned up their work stations, I have generally allowed them to get complimentary beverages from our soda and punch dispensers.

On Thursday I found these two students drinking sodas. Their workstation was a mess. There was flour and shortening all over the counter. The kitchen aid mixing bowl, attached whip, measuring cups, and measuring spoons had not been cleaned and put away.

When I asked the boys what they were doing, they told me that they had decided to take a break BEFORE cleaning.

I told them that in my class, breaks always come at the end of the period after all projects had been completed and all cleaning had been done. I took their sodas away and asked them to clean their workstations.

While I was in the restaurant kitchen getting rid of their sodas, the two students walked out of the culinary arts lab mumbling that "this is bogus."
They left class without permission fifteen minutes before the end of the period.

I phoned the office and reported that these students were missing. I later found out that the building administrator had intercepted them as they were trying to walk off campus. I don't know what happened to them but both of them were no shows on Friday.

Since other students had to clean up after them and since I am a great believer in the use of consequences and allowing the "punishment" to "fit the crime," I plan to have them break down and clean the char broiler when school resumes next week.

The char broiler is easily the most filthy piece of kitchen equipment that has to be cleaned on a regular basis. We flame grill poultry, steaks, chops, and hamburgers on the iron grills ... which have to be removed and scrubbed. The grease trap has to be pulled and emptied. It's a dirty job that generally leaves one's hands covered in black grease.

The two students in question are familiar with the char broiler as they've been on cleaning detail before.

The rest of the class is scheduled to work on nutrition worksheets ... but since the two students in question will be busy cleaning the charbroiler, they'll have a choice. They can work on the nutrition worksheets as homework or they may sit out the following day to complete their academic assignments while the rest of the class bake chocolate shortbread cookies.

I fully anticipate having one or both of these students refuse to follow instructions and will have no problems with taking them to the office for disobedience.

It will be interesting to see what happens ...

[Chef Dave]

And now ... here's the end of the story ...

The two students who transferred in from the alternative school were accepted with the condition that they would not violate our attendance policy.

Our attendance policy says that students with 10 or more days of unexcused absences may lose credit for the semester. The boys hit 12 and 13 days respectively today ... and they were sent back to the alternative school.

They will NOT receive credit for the semester which is probably just as well as they were failing most subject areas. Their overall performance was not helped by the fact that they took 3 or 4 day weekends and did not complete most of their makeup assignments.

I am not particularly sorry to see them go as they were lazy, had poor work ethics, were not team players, did not follow directions, and were generally irresponsible. (sigh)

[Spectre]

Alas....I wish I had had admin support all year like you have.....

[dangercat]

I am glad to know that your administration stands by their policies.

:) Brook

[MrU82]

You're not being mean. You're being a good teacher. The problem with kids right now is they are being coddled WAY to much. "We" let so much slide and they think its ok to be late, not turn in work, and just be an overall unproductive person. Its ridiculous. Ane everytime someone gets on their case, the teacher is called, "mean" or "not sensitive" to the students feelings.

The way I see it is we are there parents for 6-8 hours per day so I'm going to act like a parent AND a teacher. My parents never gave me a free pass. And I certaintly didnt get rewarded for things I SHOULD do.

[Spectre]

You're not being mean. You're being a good teacher. The problem with kids right now is they are being coddled WAY to much. "We" let so much slide and they think its ok to be late, not turn in work, and just be an overall unproductive person. Its ridiculous. Ane everytime someone gets on their case, the teacher is called, "mean" or "not sensitive" to the students feelings.

The way I see it is we are there parents for 6-8 hours per day so I'm going to act like a parent AND a teacher. My parents never gave me a free pass. And I certaintly didnt get rewarded for things I SHOULD do.

Amen to all that!

Truth is, I've been thought "mean" too, over the years, because I insist students earn their way, do what they are supposed to do...it's tough being a teacher.

[sweetsass]

You're not being mean. You're being a good teacher. The problem with kids right now is they are being coddled WAY to much. "We" let so much slide and they think its ok to be late, not turn in work, and just be an overall unproductive person. Its ridiculous. Ane everytime someone gets on their case, the teacher is called, "mean" or "not sensitive" to the students feelings.

The way I see it is we are there parents for 6-8 hours per day so I'm going to act like a parent AND a teacher. My parents never gave me a free pass. And I certaintly didnt get rewarded for things I SHOULD do.

I'm co-signing this entire post.

My parents and teachers didn't let me get away with things, and as a result I learned limits. I wouldn't be doing my students any favors - nor would I be teaching them anything - if I let them get away with bad behavior.

It's difficult, but you've got to be "mean" sometimes. Even if it's a decade down the line, the kids will be grateful to you for that.

[DarrenB]

If, by "mean" you mean "consistent no matter what," then I agree. Mean, to me, implies unfair behavior. But, usually when a student tells me I'm mean, it's just because I've consistently enforced my standards, much to their dismay. Then I tell them, "Yeah, I'm mean. I'm the meanest teacher you've got. Haven't you figured that out yet?" And since I'm not really mean at all , and we've got some real meanies on our grade, they get the joke.

I hear a lot about not smiling until winter, or being mean to students. I really think the focus should be on consistency of reaction. That way the students will always know what to expect when in your classroom. This way we are helping our students be successful by knowing what they need to do to succeed.

Does this make sense or am I just rambling?

Darren B.

[MissTeach]

I agree; being consistent is the major ingredient for classroom management. I go over my rules with my students the first week of school, and then I stick to them. No one gets a 'break'. By the end of the year, I have virtually no problems except with new students. Many times other students will warn the new students.

Of course there are the new students like Chef Dave was discussing.......................................