So...how do you know when it's time....

[Spectre]

...to hang it up? What are some signs and indicators that you've been at this too long? :confused:

We had a team meeting today and one of the subjects of discussion was student responsibility. We have several 8th graders who are failing because they simply refuse to do any work. Our team policy has, from the start, stated that work can be accepted up to one day late, unless due to unusual circumstances, but not after that.

All of my three teammates are much younger than me, more than 20 years younger. One of them insists that we must "help these kids pass" some way, no matter what, two of them are uncertain and I am being the bad guy, insisting that the fourth "R" (responsibility) is something students must assume, particularly now that they will be entering high school. We have tried various interventions already: parent contact (often the parents just don't show up for the meeting), referrals to guidance, after school sessions. In a few cases, we have offered to accept work brought in late, all to no avail.

What MORE are we supposed to do, or have I just been at this teaching thing for so long that I have become addled and insensitive?

Am I a "dinosaur" who needs to die off?:eek:

[MsCoffeeLover]

You haven't become addled and insensitive. Those younger folks just haven't figured out that they can't save the world and every last child in it. Didn't we all enter teaching with some rather grand ideas to be the change we wish to see in the world? Once we actually get in it, we realize there are so many other factors, things aren't as easy as they seem, and we need to modify and adjust.

It seems to be a discovery the younger ones have yet to make if that makes sense. The same thing goes with politics. So many folks supposedly know exactly what to do to run the country, and apparently everyone else that ran for office said the same thing. It isn't that simple.

You have exhausted all possible measures. It doesn't matter how long you are in the field, we can't raise other people's children or make parents become more involved. We can only do so much. People need to take ownership, and if they don't, well, it looks like they will have to repeat that grade.

Besides, just today I wondered if it were time for me to throw in the towel, and I am in my forth year. How many times have we actually asked ourselves that same question?

Being a teacher is forever a love hate relationship.

Did any of that make sense? Regardless, I agree with you whole heartedly.

[Chef Dave]

I think it's important at this point to differentiate between frustration at this job and fatigue over teaching in general.

At another website, you talked about leaving this job last year. I don't understand why you gave this school another year ... but stay you did and I think the frustration is now catching up with you.

In thinking about your attitude towards teaching, how did you feel when you took workshops in Alaska last year? If you didn't have to deal with surly attitudes and staff members who use political correctness as an excuse to explain away or validate the misbehavior of children, how would you really feel about teaching?

There's an old adage that goes, "A good teacher can teach anywhere." The premise of this belief is that "good teachers" are interchangeable cogs. If one were to believe this philosophy, any dedicated teacher with the right qualifications should be able to teach at any class within a district.

The reality is that teaching is also a highly personalized craft. Despite the use of textbooks, district curriculum, state standards, and NCLB, our beliefs, our attitudes, our experiences, and our own unique personalities work in concert to effectively differentiate us from one another as teachers.

Just as different schools have different educational climates, I also believe that many teachers are best suited for schools with very specific climates.

My own experience has taught me that I work best in highly structured schools with a minimum of administrative oversight. Administrators who allow me full rein on my creativity within the constraints of curriculum, state standards, department budget, and district policy, will get my personal best as a teacher.

I do not work well in schools that lack effective leadership. I do not work well with administrators who feel the compulsive need to micromanage me as a teacher. I also despise administrators who view their positions as "personal fiefdoms" and use their jobs to validate tyrannical and abusive behavior.

I think your problem is that you've been mismatched with your school. You weren't happy there last year. You're even less happy there this year. You really need to move on and to find a school that's a good match for you.

I think you would do well at a school that was a lot like mine. You need structure, decent administrative support, and students from homes with conservative family values. I don't think you'll find this in your district. I think you need to look for a small school in a rural area where liberal PC crud and "New Age" parenting hasn't eroded the minds of the staff to the point where atrocious student behavior is excused for reasons of "culture."

I do not believe that poverty or culture are legitimate excuses for disruptive behavior or bad attitudes towards learning.

Teachers who think otherwise may join hands and sing "Kumbayah" until H-LL freezes over ... and their students will still be mired in willful ignorance.

Like you, I may be an educational "dinosaur" ... but I believe in the old values ... work ethic, responsibility, discipline, honor, and integrity.

Students who apply themselves will succeed regardless of race, culture, national origin, or religion.

[busbus]

...to hang it up? What are some signs and indicators that you've been at this too long? :confused:

What MORE are we supposed to do, or have I just been at this teaching thing for so long that I have become addled and insensitive?

Am I a "dinosaur" who needs to die off?:eek:

Spectre,

You are the kind of teacher that I hated in middle school. You made me work to earn my grades! You made me responsible to get my work in on time! You contacted my parents when I decided to show off and got me into trouble at home! Because of you, I can't watch my favorite television shows! I can't hang out with my friends or ride my bike! You and your d**n assignments and your big mouth!

However, Spectre, you are the kind of teacher that made high school and college easy for me because you taught me work ethics. Because of you, I have confidence in my abilities and feel that I can compete with anyone from anywhere. You helped me to become responsible for my own learning, and as a result, I am the classic lifelong learner. What you taught me, no one can ever take away, because it is a part of who I am.

Do I still hate you? No! You are the best thing that ever happened to me. You can't be replaced in my life because you helped me to learn that, I AM SOMEBODY!

Spectre, you are the kind of dinosaur that so many of our students need. Without dinosaurs like you, our students will be ill-prepared for the 21st Century. Even though I feel that your teammates care, they are doing a disservice to these boys if, some way and some how, they cause these boys to pass to high school. They are not prepared to accept the responsibilities required of high school students.

It may be time for you to leave your current school, it seems like it is a toxic environment and in the end will cause you more stress and anxiety. Find a school where you can be the kind of teacher that you are. You can't save them all. You can lead them to the water; but, you can't make them drink!

[MsCoffeeLover]

Busbus,

That was the greatest post EVER!! I will copy and paste, keep as a reminder, and share along the way. That was perfect! I have so much to learn, and your way of describing things reminds me of that in such a great way.

[Spectre]

Think I will save your post, print it out.

Your outlook is a rare one, but I am much relieved to see that some still think that way!:)

[busbus]

Thank you for your kind words.

From reading your posts, I sense that both of you are dedicated teachers and only want the best for your students. You will "fight" to get them to where they should be! They, perhaps their parents and others may think that you are too demanding today; but, tomorrow, they will understand and - even if not directly to you, they will thank you for your stubbornness!

Continue your "fight" for our students. They need teachers like you! ;)

[pearcen]

You know, I feel like society and school systems have the attitude of "we can't hurt the children's feelings by not accepting them for the team, or not getting a good grade" even if they didn't meet the criteria or be a responsible student and do the work required to get the good grade.

While I feel like a teacher should do the things necessary to provide an environment where every child has the opportunity to learn and succeed, it is not fair to the students who refuse to try and work as well as those students who work really hard if we let them pass based on the fact that we don't want them to have hurt feelings or be mad or feel unsuccessful.

I believe students need to be held accountable for their work and they need to learn to make good choices. If a student is doing what he or she needs to do and is still struggling, it's a different story; but those who sit and do nothing even after probing and doing everything we can to help them should not be given a free pass.

** Sorry if this was at all incoherent. I am very restricted on time today!! :eek:

[Spectre]

** Sorry if this was at all incoherent. I am very restricted on time today!! :eek:

You weren't incoherent at all, and I have to agree with what you say. I've said for years that no one is made to be responsible anymore.

These students I talk about have steadfastly refused to make any effort on their own behalf and while they have initially responded to interventions we have made, they inevitably revert to type shortly thereafter. :eek:

I guess I am also a little weary of having almost the whole burden shifted onto our shoulders and then having the blame heaped on us too when things don't go right.

For those who struggle, yet try, I will walk through hades itself barefoot. For those who have been given every opportunity but refuse to apply themselves, I am a little less forgiving. :confused:

[MsCoffeeLover]

All parents, teachers, administrators, school districts, and the forces behind education always stress having "high expectations for learners" Well, guess what? I do, have said such in conferences, and so far no one has yet to argue with me.

This year I have grown more comfortable with the fact that I have done all I can do. There is one thing to be helpful and another thing to be just foolish. That is one of the realities of education that smacks you right in the face when you least expect it. It'll smack those girls too.

That or exhaustion will smack them first.

Actually, I thought of this post today. We were watching a united streaming thing on Immunity and Disease, and the kids had to write down the segments and write so many facts for each segment. The segments weren't labeled in the video, so the kids knew they had to really be active listeners. If the kids have had a pretty good week, after the video they get to work with a partner of their choosing to compare answers and maybe fill in a few blanks. Normally, if kids are allowed to work with a partner, they can work with the one next to them, and friends can never work together, but this was a reward. Apparently, I was more strict than I thought because they acted as though they won the lottery with this one.

I have this one girl that is just not into school. She often doesn't read any of the assignments and waits for the review. Well, today she and one other student (who are friends) didn't write a single fact down. That girl and the boy were not allowed to work with a partner, had a discussion with me about who is responsible for their work, and were on their own. They watched their friends have a delightful time as well as get a decent grade. They were mad, and I didn't care. They were not to be rewarded for their particular behavior. Bottom line.

There is no reward for laziness.

[Spectre]

I think it's important at this point to differentiate between frustration at this job and fatigue over teaching in general.

At another website, you talked about leaving this job last year. I don't understand why you gave this school another year ... but stay you did and I think the frustration is now catching up with you.

Just as different schools have different educational climates, I also believe that many teachers are best suited for schools with very specific climates.
Students who apply themselves will succeed regardless of race, culture, national origin, or religion.


Quite possible, Chef Dave. To reply, partially, to your statement, I remained because I thought that only giving the new school and new situation one year was not realistic. I also didn't think it would look good on a resume, either. Aside from that, it was also the first time in 20 some years that I had a principal who was worth anything. the school I had come from earlier had one that was the exact antithesis!

Today, I found out that two of my younger teammates actually agree with my stance on this issue. The third one, an excellent teacher and a good person too, simply sees the world differently.

[Chef Dave]

I remained because I thought that only giving the new school and new situation one year was not realistic. I also didn't think it would look good on a resume, either.

During my 18 years of teaching, I have taught in three different countries and seven different districts. At three different teaching jobs I only remained for a single year.

Although some building administrators have expressed a concern about my roving nature, I think most administrators have understood that I have always looked at my teaching certificate as an opportunity to travel.

After all - not only are experienced teachers needed throughout the United States, but we also need teachers abroad at International American schools in Asia, Africa, Europe, the Middle East, Central and South America, and the Caribbean. As a matter of trivia, last year, 6,128 U.S. citizens taught at 194 international schools located in 135 countries.

I don't think one year would have hurt you given your otherwise solid employment history.

[Progress]

Like all others have said,we cannnot be responsible for the attitudes of our students,especially those who refuse point blankly to be responsible for their own learning.I think these students should bear the consequences of such behaviour,regardless how hurtful it will be,they have to reap what they have sown.There is no point in making them pass one way or the other so that teachers can save face.What about their future,as soon as they learn to offload at this early age,they will carry it forth with them.

Remember,humans are habit forming creatures.Some are easy to form but difficult to part with.The trend with our young students is to sit back and do nothing because knowing that social security will look after them.

We are all where we are because we chose to be responsible for our lives.